[Updated again 7/4/1: follow-ups below]
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 20:52:59 +0000 (GMT)
From: honey
To: ip@ip.pt, abuse@ip.pt, postmaster@ip.pt
Cc: arnaldopedro@ip.pt, lowfly@ip.pt, artvortex@ip.pt, agenda_lowfly@ip.pt
Subject: Abuse report: unsolicited email from your domain
First of all my apologies for writing in English: I hope this is
understood ok.
I wish to report consistent unsolicited emails originating from your
domain, ip.pt, and request immediate action please. These have been
going on since September 2000, and despite all my efforts to negotiate
this peacefully, the parties responsible for the junk email have simply
continued. I've found out today that not only have they been trying to
send unsolicited email to the 1400 members of my mailing list, they've
also been using their individual addresses to send email to directly.
I believe this will be in contravention of your Acceptable Use
Agreements and you will take immediate appropriate action to make sure
these emails stop.
The details: I run a mailing list for the band Belle and Sebastian,
which has 1400 members. In September last year, messages started
appearing from various addresses under the "ip.pt" domain, some of
which you will see in the attached file "spam". These addresses
include:
arnaldopedro@ip.pt
lowfly@ip.pt
agenda_lowfly@ip.pt
artvortex@ip.pt
The Lowfly website lives at: http://www.ip.pt/~ip247698/ on your
servers.
Arnaldo as an individual was very welcome on the list, as all new
people are, but he immediately tried to send advertising information
about his record label, LowFly records, which is against list policy.
I mailed him repeatedly about this, and received no reply: the mails
kept coming. We then got various mails from various related addresses,
and then ArtVortex mails from the same domain, including very large
attachments, all advertising. Again I tried to contact the various
addresses to no avail. I reconfigured my software to reject these
mails, but today I've discovered that individual list members have been
receiving many of these mails too, presumably because LowFly/ArtVortex
harvested their mails from posts to my mailing list.
I find this sort of behaviour underhand, unfair and totally unacceptable.
From all the mails I've send to Arnaldo and other members of the
organisation, I've received one reply, from a Misia, denying all
knowledge of these mails. When I mailed back and suggested I could
help in identifying the origin, she didn't bother replying.
Subsequent to that exchange, more mails from ArtVortex and Lowfly
have appeared.
Here are a couple of extracts from mails from list members informing
me of the junk email:
> I am getting fed up with spam (especially from some guy
> called Lowfly or Art Vortex who, unsolicitated, sends me big graphic
> attachments. Annoying .....
> Yesterday's post (where I ranted about spam) prompted another listeee
> to mail me and say she was also getting spam from the addresses
> 'lowfly@ip.pt' and 'artvortex@ip.pt' Given that these e-mails are
> vaguely e-mai related, I have a sneaking suspicion they may come from a
> listee.
I've removed their names so as not to identify them. Attached also are
a few of my mails to Arnaldo and others (filename: "mailtolowfly").
I'm afraid for now I'll have to ban all membership of my list from
your domain, ip.pt. Arnaldo, you may have been welcome as a new user
once, you're not now.
Please could you reply to this message and tell me what action you
can take to reassure me that these mails will cease? Given such
assurances I'll of course remove bans for ip.pt again.
Thanks,
Honey
Date: 29 Jan 2001 11:46:39 -0000
From: Novis Telecom Network Abuse Prevention
To: honey
Subject: [IP-abuse autoreply]: Re: [IP-abuse autoreply]: Abuse report:
unsolicited email from your domain
PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO THIS E-MAIL. THIS AN AUTO-RESPONSE FOR ABUSE@IP.PT
----
Dear Sir or Madam,
The message you sent will originate an inquiry to find the source of this
occurrence, if it is justifiable. You will not be contacted again unless we
need some information only you can provide.
Whenever you report a case of unsolicited commercial e-mail (SPAM), please
include the full, untouched headers of the offending message in your complaint.
In case of an intrusion attempt, please indicate the source IP address, target
IP address, target port and protocol, the date/time of the attempt and your
timezone.
Security and privacy are among our greatest concerns, and therefore we
thank you in advance for your cooperation.
Best regards,
Network Abuse Prevention System from Novis Telecom
abuse@ip.pt
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 11:46:27 +0000 (GMT)
From: honey
To: Novis Telecom Network Abuse Prevention , postmaster@ip.pt
Subject: Re: [IP-abuse autoreply]: Abuse report: unsolicited email from
your domain
I reported this abuse of your facilities on 17th January and I'm sorry
to report that it's still continuing: attached is an email containing
an example of continuing unsolicited email to some of my list members.
I understand that you don't normally reply personally to such reports,
but in the case of repeated abuse after a report has been submitted,
could you please reply personally to me to tell me what measures you
are taking to stop this?
I notice that the website responsible for this repeated abuse of
international and legal conventions on unsolicited email is still
hosted by yourselves at:
http://www.ip.pt/~ip247698/
and that the emails continue. Please could you assure me of the
action you are taken in this respect so I don't have to pass this on
to others to ensure these emails cease.
I've also attached my original report to you.
Thank you,
Honey
From artvortex@ip.pt Sat Apr 7 13:54:00 2001
Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2001 03:42:34 +0100
From: ART VORTEX - Analog Art
To: honey
Misia from ArtVortex, here!
Sorry for the delay.
After a few months, I've finnaly understand what was the problem with the
mails sent to you and the sinister list.
In September, Arnaldo (my boss...) who works as a graphic designer for
Mondo Bizarre magazine was desperated. He was finishing the new issue of
the magazine and he had no photo for the Belle and Sebastian article.
The band has no big commercial distribution in Portugal and no one was
able to find him a press photo for the magazine. Using the net he
subscribe to the list to find if someone could sent him a photo... but,
since you can't write direct to the list for a couple weeks, only receive
messages, he sent a message for some of the adresses from the list trying
to find if someone could help him....
During that time period, we had our e-mail program configured to join all
e-mail adresses to where we write a message to our e-mail contact list.
but we didn't know that that option was ON... That's why our messages
from lowfly and artvortex have been sent to some of the list members.
because they have been added to our e-mail list by our e-mail program
when we have send them a mail asking if they could help us find a photo
for the magazine! ! We do not harvest e-mail adresses from lists. Our
e-mail messages are only sent to persons who have asked to receive
information about our activities and to press and labels contacts. When
someone asks to be removed from our contact list we do that!
I've deleted your e-mail adress when you've asked to be removed but when
I sent you my last message answering your mail, you have been again been
join to our contact list.
Don't worry now. That option is now Off. I'm sending you this message but
the program will not include you again in our contact list.
Sorry for the problems...and hope you understand my english.... well,
sure I don't understand your portuguese! :)
Misia L.
From honey Sat Apr 7 13:56:00 2001
Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2001 13:53:47 +0100 (BST)
From: honey
To: ART VORTEX - Analog Art
Subject: Re: your mail
misia - thank you for your reply, finally. what a very dangerous
email program you have there. you will presumably have hundreds of
people on your list who don't want to receive these mails? and the
mails you send out are so big they have caused real problems to some
dialup users. i hope this means you will start your list all over
again, or at least delete everyone from it except those you *know* who
want to remain on it. i suggest you mail everyone on it now, say
sorry, and ask them to mail you back if they wish to remain on it.
if they don't mail back, remove them. positive action on their part
should be required for them to stay on your list.
i've had more complaints since my last mail to you about people still
receiving your mails, but i'd given up hope of any response. can you
therefore please scrap your list and start again?
in the meantime, if i know of people who are receiving your mails and
don't want to, i, or they will send you a mail ok? i know that the
following address has been receiving them, could you please remove
her immediately? she is: ***@gurlmail.com. also please remove
any address that ends in "@missprint.org", if you have any left.
finally, i received the following mail this morning from an address
at "ip.pt", and i don't know why. does this person have anything to
do with your organisation?
-----
Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2001 03:13:11 +0100
From: Esgar Acelerado
To: honey
Hello!
-----
thanks,
honey
From artvortex@ip.pt Tue Apr 10 15:07:33 2001
Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2001 17:21:14 +0100
From: ART VORTEX - Analog Art
To: honey
Subject: Re: your mail
Hello!
Thanks for your mail.
>> Esgar is one of the artists from ArtVortex. He have sent you that mail,
just to confirm if the adress was correct. I asked him to do that.
>> As for LowFly, ArtVortex and Cru Magazine lists, it's impossible for me
to start all ove ragain. As I told you before, I don't harvest e-mail
adresses. The situation with your list was special.... the adresses I have
are all from press contact, from persons who have asked us for information,
clients, labels, stores and agents. I can't ask them if they want to stay or
not in our lists, since they have show their interest in receive our
information before. but, If anyone sends us an e-mail asking to be deleted,
the adress is deleted. Sometimes that may take a week or so... because it's
a manual process, and since our contact lists have more than 5.000 adresses,
sometimes we get lots of returned messages from old e-mail adresses that
also must been removed.
>> ***@gurlmail.com is not in our contact list... maybe the adress was
already been removed.
>> As for the persons you know that are receiving our mails and don't wan't
to receive them, well, please tell them that they just need to send us an
e-mail with the subject REMOVE.... as simple as that. Why they haven't
thought of that before?... ;)
>> LowFly, CRU and ArtVortex are run for our pleasure. We have all day time
works. We do not wish to spend our time causing troubles to anyone.
Please take care!
All the best!
Arnaldo Pedro
LowFly Records
From honey Tue Apr 10 15:07:54 2001
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 15:07:17 +0100 (BST)
From: honey
To: ART VORTEX - Analog Art
Subject: Re: your mail
Hello Arnaldo.
> >> Esgar is one of the artists from ArtVortex. He have sent you that mail,
> just to confirm if the adress was correct. I asked him to do that.
All he said was "hello" - I wasn't sure why. Thanks for explaining.
> >> As for LowFly, ArtVortex and Cru Magazine lists, it's impossible for me
> to start all ove ragain. As I told you before, I don't harvest e-mail
> adresses. The situation with your list was special.... the adresses I have
> are all from press contact, from persons who have asked us for information,
> clients, labels, stores and agents. I can't ask them if they want to stay or
> not in our lists, since they have show their interest in receive our
> information before.
It's seen as perfectly acceptable behaviour on mailing lists to send
out the occasional mail asking recipients to confirm their continuing
interest: I've been running very large mailing lists for 4 years and
occasionally do this. In the case where your own misconfiguration of
your software has introduced people who don't wish to receive your
mails onto your lists, the burden is, in my opinion, to rectify this
mistake. Requiring people actively do something to be removed is
just how all the spam email companies operate. I'd ask you to
reconsider this please, due the number of repeated groans and
complaints I've received from many people, who've given up trying to
be removed from your lists.
> but, If anyone sends us an e-mail asking to be deleted,
> the adress is deleted. Sometimes that may take a week or so... because it's
> a manual process, and since our contact lists have more than 5.000 adresses,
> sometimes we get lots of returned messages from old e-mail adresses that
> also must been removed.
>
> >> As for the persons you know that are receiving our mails and don't wan't
> to receive them, well, please tell them that they just need to send us an
> e-mail with the subject REMOVE.... as simple as that. Why they haven't
> thought of that before?... ;)
Goodness. Look, many people HAVE mailed you, and I suspect received
what I've received on a number of occasions, first a curt reply saying
it's not true, and then no reply whatsoever for months on end after
repeated requests to discuss this. You are responsible for sending
these unsolicited emails and it is now your responsibility to rectify
this and apologise to those people who have received these mails due to
your own errors.
> >> LowFly, CRU and ArtVortex are run for our pleasure. We have all day time
> works. We do not wish to spend our time causing troubles to anyone.
The same applies to my list: I run it in my spare time, and furthermore
make, nor attempt to make, any money from it. You've generated an
awful lot of ill-feeling towards your site from the 1400 people on my
mailing list and elsewhere, I suggest you try and rebuild that
relationship by taking some positive steps.
Honey
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 20:52:21 +0100
From: ART VORTEX - Analog Art
To: honey
Subject: Re: your mail
Hello!
as you can imagine, due to the large amount of adresses we have, it's
impossible to, every 6 months or so, ask everyone if they want to keep their
adresses on our lists. because that way, we needed to delete all the
adresses and re-write them again all over again. that's a work we can't have
for the moment.
90% of the adresses are from people who have asked to be on the list - by
e-mail, letter or in person, during festivals, art exibhitions or comics
conventions. The other 10%, well, 9% are press contacts, and maybe 1%, 40 or
50 adresses, can be from that weekend when i've sent a message to guys from
your list asking for that B&Sebastian photo for MondoBizarre.
I acept all the responsabilitie for the troubles that some messages may have
cause to some people - from artvortex, a message every week, from lowfly a
message every 2 weeks or so.... but it's impossible for me to delete all my
database and begin all over again.
As you can imagine, i also receive many e-mails that i've not asked for,
that's the dark side from this internet-thing - but i can spend 3 seconds of
my day and reply asking to be removed.
I don't know what more can I say to you. Belive that the only thing we can
do is DELETE the adresses from anyone who have been added for
mistake/troubles with our software to our database, if those persons ask to
be deleted. I don't know who those persons are! The only way i can identify
them is receiving an e-mail from them!
all the best honey!
pedro
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 21:16:32 +0100 (BST)
From: honey
To: ART VORTEX - Analog Art
Subject: Re: your mail
Pedro,
I don't know what else to say. You made a mistake but you're leaving
it up to those who have been affected by it to do something to put it
right. Like I said, your alternative would be to send a mail to your
mailing list, and ask everyone who wishes to stay to respond in say, 2
weeks' time, and then rewrite the list addresses at that stage from the
positive responses received. That in my eyes would be the fair way to
address the problem you caused. But you obviously don't want to do
this.
If I replied to every unsolicited email I received asking to be
removed, I would be sending a lot of mails. The onus of action should
NEVER be on the injured party. This is generally a very unwise thing
to do anyway, as it's a way of an illegal spammer finding real
addresses and continuing to send to that address: it's a technique they
use. I always assume someone is acting intentionally illegally if they
don't reply personally to such a request, and mail the ISP to lodge
an official complaint.
I suspect many of the people affected won't write to you because they,
like me, will have previously met with silence after repeated requests
to stop these mails from yourself. If you really hate unsolicited
emails as much as you say, I'd expect after making a bad mistake you
would make more strenuous efforts than simply to shrug, sit back, and
wait for complaints.
I can see this is your determined course of action so I guess this
correspondence is now closed.
Honey
Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2001 03:14:08 +0100
From: ART VORTEX - Analog Art
To: honey
Subject: Re: your mail
Hello!
i'm not very happy.
If you could understand portuguese i could write you a mail with at
least
1000 words.
i think that you have the idea that i'm a really bad bad guy trying
to
anoying everyone else... and that's not the case.
nevermind...
happy easter to you.
bye!
:)